Everything Rock n Roll: Walter Lure March '16
1970's New York City, an explosion of music happened in the little clubs like CBGB's, Max's Kansas City, The Village Gate and so on, that changed the world forever. It was intense, loud, distorted, dirty and sleazy rock n roll, it was called "Punk" by outsiders even though to the musicians themselves they simply call it rock n roll.
Walter Lure was the co lead/rhythm guitarist for Johnny Thunders & The Heartbreakers, and also wrote and co-wrote some of the stronger/fan favorite songs (One Track Mind, Too Much Junkie Business, Get Off The Phone, All By Myself, Can't Keep My Eyes On You, Take A Chance, Flight ) to name some. He's now the lone survivor of the classic line up of The Heartbreakers, as Johnny Thunders, Jerry Nolan and Bill Rath have passed on. Most of his fellow musicians from popular bands of that time have passed from drugs, addicition issues/complications later on in life. Walter luckily escaped the reaper. He formed The Waldos after his stint with The Blessed and did occasional Heartbreaker reunion shows till Johnny died. The Waldos have had numerous members/line ups but the current line up out of NYC has been the most constant. The Waldos released "Rent Party" in 1993 and it's probably one of the greatest sounding and produced records ever made. Jungle has reissued the album and it's available worldwide. As a fan, I started "Everything Rock n Roll" to have fun and ask questions I never see asked.
ERR: When did you get in to music and what band/musicians were a huge early influence on you?
Walter:
I started getting into music seriously in the early 1960s with the British Invasion bands. I liked music before this but mostly for dancing and parties. When I first saw the Beatles and the Stones and others then things started changing – I became a lot more focused on it. However I didn’t really start playing guitar until later when I was in college in the late 60s after I started hanging out with people who liked the same music I did and wanted to start a band together. Then I started learning how to play and became obsessed with it.
ERR: What made you choose guitar?
Walter:
The guitar was basically the main instrument of all the bands I liked and was also the one instrument that changed the most in that era – going from basically a background instrument ( with some obvious exceptions) to the main focus of the music. You could also move better onstage while playing guitar as opposed to drums or keyboards where you are stuck in one place (regardless of what Keith Emerson tried to do in the early 70s with his keyboards.)
ERR: I'm a Les Paul man myself, why have you stuck with the same Les Paul throughout your whole career? What makes that one special to you?
Walter:
I’ve had mine since around 1972 or 1973 – I had a Fretless Wonder version before that one but hated it because I couldn’t bend the strings enough so I traded that one for mine with the other guitar player in the Demons. I’ve used others onstage (especially when I travel now because they are a pain to bring on planes) and even in some later recording sessions but I’ve always felt more comfortable with that one. Besides all my favorite guitar players ( Clapton, Page, Taylor, Green) growing up all used Les Pauls and I always thought they had the best sound. The one exception might have been Jeff Beck who I think always used fenders but I could be wrong. I’ve seen him plenty of times and don’t ever remember him using a Gibson.
ERR: Were The Demons your first band, and is there any recordings of you with The Demons or earlier bands?
Walter:
The Demons were my first band that had any exposure to the downtown music scene in NYC in the 70s. My first band was in college and it was called Bloodbath but we were only doing cover songs – mostly Stones, Bowie, Yardbirds etc. I was in a band called the Stray Cats when I met the guitar player who introduced me to the lead singer of the Demons and they asked me to join. There is some old recordings of the Bloodbath band playing at a college gig but it’s only about 15 minutes long and just has covers. I never did any recordings with the Demons as they recorded their first album after I left. Just as well because I really didn’t like their music that much.
ERR: Were you nervous or excited to join The Heartbreakers?
Walter:
Joining The Heartbreakers was the best thing that ever happened to me at the time. I was excited as hell and I actually got a little nervous before our first gig. It was at a CBGB July 4th weekend festival in 1975. I had played there the night before with the Demons in my last gig with them in front of about 20 people. The next night the line of people was around the block and the place was jammed packed – I looked out at the audience and got a little jittery but that went away as soon as I hit the stage. Never got butterflies again after that.
ERR: The image of The Heartbreakers wasn't exactly "clean", did that bother you? Do you think was a turn off for a national audience and initially hurt the band?
Walter:
Yes, that was always an issue. In NYC it was almost considered a badge of honor to be known as a drug taking band in the beatnik style of 60s era poets but in the UK it didn’t really carry any cachet except for Keith Richards fans. While we were better behaved in the early days, once it became widely known that we were all heroin addicts it became harder to get any labels seriously interested in us and I never really blamed them. Johnny and Jerry were totally unreliable when it came to getting to a recording session or a show unless they had their dosage. After the LAMF record failed to take off, our days as a band were numbered and Johnny became uncontrollable especially as people were whispering in his ear that he could go solo and only pay his musicians a small salary rather than split everything with the Heartbreakers. So while it didn’t hurt us so much in the beginning, in the end it was a major stumbling block for anyone to take us seriously.
ERR: Did you enjoy going to England for the infamous "Anarchy Tour", and what are some fond memories of it all? What did you think of The Sex Pistols?
Walter:
Yes, I loved going over to the UK for the Anarchy tour and I’ve got so many great and funny memories of it that I’d need a book to write them all. We had no idea what was happening in the UK at the time – all we knew was the we though NYC was the center of the universe and NYC Punk was the only thing happening on earth. At the same time while the music scene in NYC was great nobody was getting decent record deals – even Blondie and the Ramones and Patty Smith were being signed up to shitty labels for very little advances and lousy royalty percentages. The American music industry was always very slow to jump on new fads and music directions. We had almost signed a lousy recording deal when we got the call from Malcolm McLaren asking us to do the UK tour. We said great and had nothing to lose and thought we might have some fun at the same time. Little did we know that we were jumping into the wildest scene on earth at the time. The very day we landed was the evening of the Bill Grundy show and the Pistols had caused an uproar by cursing on TV. Malcolm picked us up at the airport and was in a daze scared that his band really went to far this time. To us it seemed a little silly everyone getting upset over the fact that some kids cursed on live TV. The next day every newspaper in the UK had their picture on the front pages and the people were screaming in outrage. You could not have paid any amount of money for such great publicity. Although out of a 26 gig tour we only ended up playing about 6 shows because all the towns that we had shows booked for were refusing to let the venue permit the Pistols to play. A couple of universities and some less excitable towns in the end let us play but it was quite incredible to us at the time. I’ve got too many memories to go into all of them here but those were the best times I ever had in the music business – the British punk scene was much wilder and younger than the NYC scene and while they were still taking speed and LSD like NYC in the 60s, they would soon graduate to heroin and cocaine as the new York scene had. We even might have had some influence there as well. In any case all of the older bands like the stones and zeppelin were on junk for years already. The clothes were funnier and the bands were hilarious. The Sex Pistols were always my favorite British band at the time – they were the best on stage and had the greatest recording sound on their first single and album. We were so jealous that we couldn’t get the Heartbreakers to sound that good in the studio. We tried everything that we and anyone else knew and never got the right studio sound on our record back then. In later years it sounded much better when it was released on CD and even cassette but the vinyl version always had a lousy sound. Anyway I loved the Pistols and to this day they remain my favorite punk band bar none.
ERR: LAMF has a 50/50 pull with fans because of the mix. Do you like the mix and how was it recording LAMF?
Walter:
As I said above, none of us were happy with the original LAMF sound but we had no choice but to release it. We had spent the better part of 6 months mixing and remixing the thing and it never came out right. Jerry always insisted it was the mix but to me the mix was fine when we listened to it in the studio, it only sounded fucked up when it was put on vinyl. The record company was losing patience and said if we didn’t release it by October to get pressed for the Christmas period they were going to drop us from the label. So it was released and died a slow death – however as any self respecting vampire or punk rocker would say – it never really died. It’s been rereleased about 20 times in different versions by Jungle records in the UK and now Cleopatra with the Village gate CD. The recording sessions were fun enough but we all got frustrated with the final sound that was on the record.
ERR: After the split of The Heartbreakers on and off, you formed The Waldos. Do you or did you enjoy playing with The Waldos more even though there has been a dozen line up changes?
Walter:
Playing with the Waldos is a lot different than with the Heartbreakers. (BTW before the Waldos started, I also had the Hurricanes and the Heroes.) The Waldos are a lot more down to earth and stable than the HBs ever were and the times are very different. While there is no real “Scene” out there anymore, I can still enjoy playing clubs and filling up some modest size venues. The latest line up has been in place since my old bassist, Tony Coiro, died in 1995. The early days had several line up changes due to overdoses and people just moving on to different things. I still enjoy playing live and am comfortable with my band members even though we never became mega stars – the music business has changed so much anyway that it’s almost impossible to make money anymore with new or different music.
ERR: The Waldos released "Rent Party", and in my opinion it's one of the finest sounding albums next to "Never Mind The Bollocks". It's just so crisp, clear and in your face! Every song on that album is perfect. How do you feel about "Rent Party" and also since it's re-release have you noticed more people getting in to it?
Walter:
Yes, I was happy the way Rent Party came out – the sound was great and most of the songs were instant grabbers. My bass player at the time, Tony Coiro (Now deceased), did most of the work with our producer and spent most of the time in the studio with the guest performers and the overdubs so kudos to him for all the hard work after the rest of us burnt out and left early. I haven’t seen anything like a groundswell of people getting back into Rent Party since the release but hopefully the more I play the songs live the better response we’ll have. People r always commenting that it was one of the best albums from that era and still plays well today. Hopefully my next release (we are working on it now) will be as good.
ERR: You and Joey Pinter are/were a great duo. You guys are far tighter playing wise than say you and Johnny. Why do you think that is? Will we ever see you and Joey live on stage and or on record together?
Walter:
Joey Pinter. Yes, Joey was easy to play with (in the beginning) and we had the same sensibilities regarding the music. Since he didn’t sing that much we got along easy in the band. We’d share solos and I’d let him do some of them on my songs as in Golden Days and others. He sort of exploded personally just after the album came out and started drinking after being sober for some 10-15 years. He soon lost all control, ended up in jail. we had started looking for replacements but never got anywhere because Tony was diagnosed with liver cancer right after that and died some 6 months later. By then I was ready to retire from the music business because so many of my friends were dying but my latest line up convinced me to keep playing.
I’ve played live with Joey (now back on track and sober for some 15 years) for the past 5 years or so whenever I went to LA or the West Coast because he was living out there with his wife, Angie. He wasn’t in NYC so it didn’t make sense to make a band with him here. However, he lives in Chicago now and I rarely see him. He’s trying to put together a NYC show sometime this year and asked me to play it with him but nothing is set yet. I played on the same bill with him last August when he had his record release party in NYC.
Photo by Angie Pinter
ERR: What do you think of Joey's recent debut album?
Walter:
Funny enough, I’ve never heard it. He forgot to give me a copy at the release party and then I asked him to mail me one which he never did. I suppose I should remind him when we speak again.
ERR: You've had some pretty crazy hats, ties, jackets etc over the years, did you keep them all?
Walter:
My stage getups. I’ve managed to keep most of my hats and jackets from the late 80s and 90s onward but the ties keep shredding because they get so wet from sweat when I wear them onstage. They are getting harder to find as well. I’ve got a few from the 70s but they’re mostly in tatters and I can’t undo the knot without destroying them.
ERR: What can we expect from you in upcoming years, a new album? What do you consider your greatest accomplishment in life or in music?
Walter:
As you mention it, I am currently working on a new album with my band. I’m still digging up material from old unrecorded Waldos songs and writing a few new ones but it will be awhile because we’re still going thru the material and trying to learn it. Rehearsals are limited to once a week because the rest of the band works all different hours – from daylight, to evening and one even actually works from 9PM to 7AM at a Japanese television station in NYC. I’ve asked everyone to come up with some new ideas and we’ll see what come up. Cleopatra Records based in LA is putting up the cash for the recording as they just released the Live at Village Gate Heartbreakers album. They saw me play in LA back in October and liked it so much that they wanted a new album.
My greatest accomplishment I think is the fact that I’ve managed to stay alive all these years and still keep the music playing. So many of my friends and colleagues have died over the years from both self induced as well as natural causes. My lifestyle when I was living in the 70s with the Heartbreakers and for most of the 80s was inherently dangerous and not conducive to a happy old age and I could have died just as easily as any of my cohorts. So I’ve been given a reprieve for all my past stupidity and hope I can live up to it.
Thank you, Walter! Myself, Tate would like to thank you for the interview! Thanks to everyone who reads this Everything Rock n Roll interview!
- Tate Thompson.
